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Tuis » Algemeen » Koeitjies & kalfies » Ontstellende nuus oor Suid Afrika
Ontstellende nuus oor Suid Afrika [boodskap #41321] Sa, 28 April 2001 09:12 na volgende boodskap
Johan N Potgieter  is tans af-lyn  Johan N Potgieter
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Ek het die onstellende berigte op die M&G se webblad gesien.
Nogal onstellend - of sien ek dit verkeerd..?
Johan
Midland, GA USA

Mail & Guardian se hoofberig
http://www.mg.co.za/mg/za/archive/2001apr/features/26apr-edi torial.html

en
Die SA Regering (Dept van Finansies) se siening oor die Rand / US Dollar
wisselkoers
http://www.mg.co.za/mg/za/archive/2001apr/features/27apr-ran d.html
Re: Ontstellende nuus oor Suid Afrika [boodskap #41353 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #41321] Sa, 28 April 2001 21:26 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Johan N Potgieter  is tans af-lyn  Johan N Potgieter
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Hoe het ek dit reggekry om dieselfde boodskap 3 keer te plaas..?
Jammer
Johan

Johan wrote in message
> Ek het die onstellende berigte op die M&G se webblad gesien.
> Nogal onstellend - of sien ek dit verkeerd..?
> Johan
> Midland, GA USA
>
> Mail & Guardian se hoofberig
> http://www.mg.co.za/mg/za/archive/2001apr/features/26apr-edi torial.html
>
> en
> Die SA Regering (Dept van Finansies) se siening oor die Rand / US Dollar
> wisselkoers
> http://www.mg.co.za/mg/za/archive/2001apr/features/27apr-ran d.html
>
Re: Ontstellende nuus oor Suid Afrika [boodskap #41354 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #41353] Sa, 28 April 2001 22:19 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
davie davis[1]  is tans af-lyn  davie davis[1]
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On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 17:26:39 -0400, "Johan" wrote:

> Hoe het ek dit reggekry om dieselfde boodskap 3 keer te plaas..?
> Jammer
> Johan

Hakkel jy dalk Johan?

DD
Re: Ontstellende nuus oor Suid Afrika [boodskap #41360 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #41353] So, 29 April 2001 03:47 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Dirkie  is tans af-lyn  Dirkie
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Dalk was jy ontstel

"Johan" skryf in boodskap news:XHGG6.4635$5b1.285351@news1.atl...
> Hoe het ek dit reggekry om dieselfde boodskap 3 keer te plaas..?
> Jammer
> Johan
>
> Johan wrote in message
>> Ek het die onstellende berigte op die M&G se webblad gesien.
>> Nogal onstellend - of sien ek dit verkeerd..?
>> Johan
>> Midland, GA USA
>>
>> Mail & Guardian se hoofberig
>> http://www.mg.co.za/mg/za/archive/2001apr/features/26apr-edi torial.html
>>
>> en
>> Die SA Regering (Dept van Finansies) se siening oor die Rand / US Dollar
>> wisselkoers
>> http://www.mg.co.za/mg/za/archive/2001apr/features/27apr-ran d.html
>>
>
Re: Ontstellende nuus oor Suid Afrika [boodskap #41375 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #41321] So, 29 April 2001 09:38 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Anoth  is tans af-lyn  Anoth
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Jammer Johan, ons kan nie die goeters lees nie, want as jy nie 'n MWeb
ondersteuner is nie, kan jy nie die inligting agter hulle vuurmuur lees nie.

Dus is ek ten minste buite rekening vir kommentaar. Miskien kon jy die
inhoud waaroor jy gepraat het hier ingesluit het.

Totsiens
Logic

Johan skryf in boodskap news:%mGG6.4618$5b1.284769@news1.atl...
> Ek het die onstellende berigte op die M&G se webblad gesien.
> Nogal onstellend - of sien ek dit verkeerd..?
> Johan
> Midland, GA USA
>
> Mail & Guardian se hoofberig
> http://www.mg.co.za/mg/za/archive/2001apr/features/26apr-edi torial.html
>
> en
> Die SA Regering (Dept van Finansies) se siening oor die Rand / US Dollar
> wisselkoers
> http://www.mg.co.za/mg/za/archive/2001apr/features/27apr-ran d.html
>
Re: Ontstellende nuus oor Suid Afrika [boodskap #41381 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #41375] So, 29 April 2001 14:47 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
poppie  is tans af-lyn  poppie
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Hier is die storie Logic:

Logic skryf in boodskap news:9cgndv$pt9$1@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net...
> Jammer Johan, ons kan nie die goeters lees nie, want as jy nie 'n MWeb
> ondersteuner is nie, kan jy nie die inligting agter hulle vuurmuur lees
nie.

A disastrous reign

This week's editorial from the Mail & Guardian

------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------
----
Several years ago we asked the same question: Is Thabo Mbeki fit to rule? At
the time, it elicited a furious response from African National Congress
representatives and a coterie of others keen to ingratiate themselves with
the heir apparent to Nelson Mandela. It was deemed an unfitting question,
insulting, arrogant and - predictably - racist.
Today we ask the question again. And we can be certain that, again, it will
draw shrill cries from the praise singers in the presidency. But this time
we ask it in the knowledge that it is on the lips of many South Africans,
many of them dedicated members of the ANC, the South African Communist Party
and the trade unions. Is Mbeki fit to rule?

His 22 months in power have been disastrous. And he has no one to blame but
himself. Whether in his dealings with the Aids crisis - surely the gravest
threat ever to confront the country - his timidity over Zimbabwe, or in his
dealings with the sensitive matter of race in our politics, he has made
worse the disfigured nationhood bequeathed us by apartheid.

This week he has taken us across a new threshold. He has allowed the organs
of state security to be deployed in defence of his leadership of the ruling
party.

It is difficult to comment on President Thabo Mbeki's utterances on e.tv
this week on HIV/Aids without using language that would show immense
disrespect to the high office he represents, even if not to the man himself.

Asked if he would have an Aids test, Mbeki said, no, it was irrelevant and
would set an example 'within the context of a particular paradigm'.

But we're already within that paradigm, Mr President. HIV/Aids is woven into
our country as intimately as the virus binds itself to the DNA of those it
infects. It is affecting our economy, and across our society people of all
classes and races are dying. There are persistent rumours about which
eminent people have HIV - the minister of health herself has publicly said
that members of her family are living with the syndrome.

Nor would it be irrelevant for Mbeki to have an HIV test. Our Anglican
bishops have already underlined their claims to moral authority by going for
public HIV tests. For our first citizen to do likewise would be immensely
relevant, whether or not he claimed his constitutional rights to privacy and
declined to reveal the results.

Mbeki's statement on e.tv sounded like someone who does not believe the link
between HIV and Aids. If he really doubts it and believes that the toxicity
of anti-retroviral drugs outweighs their benefits, then government policy
should reflect this.

Rather than appearing as Solomonic wisdom, Mbeki's equivocation on HIV/Aids,
Aids tests and anti-retroviral drugs sounds like a dissident without the
courage of his convictions.

Government's schizoid attitude has already - and is now - taking a terrible
toll, not only among the people smitten by HIV, but also among those in
government trying to combat it. The civil servant responsible for leading
the battle against HIV broke down publicly and cried over her inability to
get state action against the epidemic. If she resigns, another able warrior
against the emergency enveloping South Africa will have been lost.

The underlying cause of Aids is HIV. No one has provided a plausible
opposing paradigm. Until Mbeki can either admit it or rebut it, our advice
to the president is to shut up.

There is, however, little prospect that he will take our advice. It is as if
he fears that to admit to an error - or to be found to have committed one -
implies, for him, some kind of annihilation as a person. How else are we to
explain this unreasoned obduracy?

The same pattern is evident on Zimbabwe. He has claimed the right to public
silence on the merits of the situation. This is a privilege that might be
allowed if his 'quiet diplomacy' had been successful. Yet his diplomacy has
been a singular failure.

The dictatorship of Robert Mugabe gets ever more crude, brutal and idiotic;
the Zimbabwean economy spirals with increasing speed towards total collapse;
ordinary Zimbabweans' appeals for formative action on their crisis from
their South African neighbours become ever more hopeless; and the damage to
the prospects for prosperity in our own country and the region becomes ever
more severe.

Asked why, then, he does not pursue a different approach - say, a more
robust policy towards Mugabe - Mbeki claims that he has, indeed, criticised
the Zimbabwean leader in public and that we, or media organisations, have
somehow failed to hear him.

His wriggling is undignified. Its purpose is, again, to avoid admitting to
what is evidently, for him, the greatest calamity: to have been wrong.

Mbeki's most shameful contribution to our society over the past 22 months,
though, has been his attempts to re-racialise our politics. He has taken the
perversity of apartheid and sought to make of it a virtue.

He tells us repeatedly that all whites hold all blacks in contempt. What he
hopes to achieve by doing so, we can only guess. Whatever it is, it cannot
be far from a desire to sow division where the struggle against apartheid
sought to create unity, to plant the seeds of a new nation in formation.

What are more certain are the results of Mbeki's approach: black South
Africans treat their white counterparts with even greater suspicion than our
unhappy history might justify; whites, their capital and skills are leaving
the country at an alarming rate; what Mandela made a country of hope,
confident it could overcome its tremendous difficulties, Mbeki has, in just
22 months, rendered a land of fractiousness and despair.

Why? we ask. Why?

We believe the answer lies in the same territory of the mind that explains
the extraordinary tales of plot and counter-plot we have heard in recent
weeks and months, the unsolicited denials of ambition by leading ANC
figures, and the failure by brave soldiers in the struggle against apartheid
to speak out now against a leader many of them now despise yet fear.

Mbeki took us across a threshold this week when he and his Minister of
Safety and Security Steve Tshwete told us, in effect, that to rival Mbeki
for leadership of the ANC or the presidency of the country was both
traitorous and murderous. While trying to give the appearance of standing
outside the fray, Mbeki appealed on e.tv on Tuesday night for those with
knowledge of any plots to come forward with their evidence, while on the
national broadcaster, the SABC, Tshwete, on the flimsiest of evidence, named
three of Mbeki's potential rivals for leadership of the ANC as, allegedly,
dangers to the president's life.

This is low, low stuff. It is the stuff of the Soviet Union under Josef
Stalin, or of Malawi under Kamuzu Banda. Had the three named individuals
been discussing Mbeki's replacement (and we know of no evidence that they
have) this would have been entirely legitimate and the very stuff of
democracy. By using words such as 'plot', Mbeki and Tshwete have created
notions of gunpowder and treason.

It was preceded by weeks during which we on this newspaper heard repeated
stories of leaks to the SABC intended to embarrass Deputy President Jacob
Zuma emanating from individuals associated with the presidency. It came
barely a month after the editor of this newspaper was told by a senior
official in the presidency that, if the Mail & Guardian carried further
references to the president's sexual habits, he could expect a 'personal
hell'.

Matthews Phosa, Cyril Ramaphosa and Tokyo Sexwale - the three named by
Tshwete - are no angels. They are robust businessmen and politicians. Might
we not, however, expect them also to have been accorded by the government
the dignity and presumption of innocence the ANC and government have been
demanding for Messrs Yengeni and others who might have benefited from the
R50-billion arms deal.

The arms deal is - as we predicted it would when the ANC excluded the Heath
commission from the investigation into it -haunting the ANC. And so it will
continue to do for as long as the ANC and the government give the appearance
of not promoting the fullest possible investigation into the scandal
surrounding the self-enrichment via the deal of a number of senior
individuals associated with the ruling party.

As we reveal on pages two and three of this newspaper today, under Mbeki's
chairmanship, the Cabinet decided in 1999 to incur what is now a R50-billion
bill (and rising) for the arms deal, notwithstanding evidence before it from
the Ministry of Finance that the defence purchases would seriously damage
this country's ability to take the bulk of its citizens beyond poverty.

The time is long past for members of the ANC to ask themselves whether this
is the kind of leadership they want, or that the country needs. A great
party is at risk of being turned into the instrument of a man caught up in
his own personal rages and with so brittle an ego that he fears evisceration
if he retreats on an issue or allows a recognition that he has failed.

In December next year the ANC decides whether this man should continue as
president of the party. It also has the power to determine substantially
whether he should continue as president of the country. At least, the time
has come for the ANC to conclude that the president of the ANC and of the
country should not be one and the same person.

ANC members are already asking the same question as we are: Is Thabo Mbeki
fit to rule?

They now need to recover the courage to answer it. It does not follow that
they are conspirators or murderers if they do so honestly.

-- The Mail&Guardian, April 26, 2001.
Re: Ontstellende nuus oor Suid Afrika [boodskap #41412 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #41321] Ma, 30 April 2001 02:00 Na vorige boodskap
poppie  is tans af-lyn  poppie
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Eeeuw Danielle, dankie vir die grafiese beskrywing!!! :-))

Ek wonder nou net waar die lang geel goed hang, jy praat
nie dalk van honeysuckle nie? Hier by ons is dit in volle
blom en dit ruik fantasties. En die groen is so n lower/liggroen.

pop

Danielle skryf in boodskap news:kpepet85ut4bftpmas3cqd4ka5ncl4bu1t@4ax.com...

Laas week was dit sulke lang geel
> stringerige goed.
> Anyway, die dogwoods is in volle blom en alles is pragtig en groen,
> so...:-)
>
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